Carstens-Camenisch Park Master Plan

I often play disc golf here. It could be improved my having nicer grass on the course, and maybe some additional trees for shade.

I object to the plan to combine the two disc golf courses into one for a variety of reasons; however, I will offer an idea for why doing that could be a great benefit.

My first objection is the north suburbs have already lost courses, which has increased congestion, so turning two courses into one would exacerbate that issue. It's not that rare to plan a round at UBL or LBL, arrive to a crowded parking lot, and swap to the other course and still have a good outing.

My second objection is in line with other commenters who pointed out we need more courses that are welcoming to a variety of players. I'm an adult male and when I go out to a course, players I see are a vast majority of other adult males. Combining UBL and LBL into one giant course dramatically decreases the chances anyone other than adult males will play.

My final objection is the design that removes trees and combines courses to make longer throws. Front Range courses vastly over-represent "wide open fairway with a couple trees somewhere that sort-of-kind-of influence your throw." We desperately need more technical throws compared to longer throws.

Finally, I said I had a suggestion that counters my objections. I would be in favor of making one large course IF it was done the right way. In my mind, that proper way would be to create a large, unified disc golf park that supports multiple layouts that cater to a variety of skill levels, up to and including being able to host a PDGA Elite Series event.

The professional disc golf tour has no major events in Colorado and, not only that, but no tour events bring course elevation into play. On this map of the 2024 tour, there is not a single event played in the mountain west: link

The Denver metro area has the infrastructure to host a national event, but we don't have a course worthy of the pro tour. We could leverage one of our unique features, our elevation, and put Colorado on the disc golf map. Having touring pro's and spectators gather for a three-day event like an Elite Series tournament would boost business income and tax revenue that would, over time, offset the cost of hiring a professional course designer and making all the changes (like planting lots of trees) resulting in a top-tier course. There is also a major disc golf manufacturer based in Colorado, Discmania, that I'm sure would entertain the idea of collaborating and/or sponsoring the course redesign. link

The model course for what I'm envisioning is Maple Hill Disc Golf. They have three year-round course layouts that cater to beginner, intermediate, and advanced players. Then they have two special layouts for hosting annual tournaments for professional men and women. link

Colorado is such a wonderful place that could bring unique elements into play, it's really a shame we aren't part of the national disc golf scene. I believe the property re-development could be undertaken in a way that would be, simultaneously, more inclusive of a wider audience of locals, and bring national attention to Hyland Hills. If that's not in the cards, though, please don't take yet another disc golf course away.

Please add more Pickleball courts! Four pickleball courts with lights would be great for the park!!

secure bicycle parking. parking a bike takes up much less room than parking a car. needs to be very secure - think bike hanger, or bike pods

general: would be nice to have secure hooks/latches to tie up dogs while playing disc golf. helps keep dogs on leash, but outside with their owners while they play

benches on holes where backups tend to be during tournaments should be prioritized. but, benches at each hole would make the course more accessible for children and older players

We need more restrooms and shade trees, trash cans

general: new and improved wayfinding signage for getting around the park and for disc golf

More pedestrian scaled lighting and a blue light emergency button to increase park safety

I am an avid female disc golf player and competitor in the community. The Badlands disc golf courses could be improved by installing new women's tee positions and/or basket positions. This would help make the community more inclusive. We don't need longer layouts, we need more technical holes and more options for ladies/juniors/senior players. All of the local courses have all been designed by, and built for, adult male players. The local league and tournament turnouts reflect this. Having even just one course option with one ladies focused layout in all of Colorado would be a huge improvement. Please consider thinking about the underrepresented players in the community and invest in them and you will see the number of ladies, juniors, and seniors in tournaments and around the community increase.

We need shorter 150-300' holes for women, juniors, and seniors. Make disc golf inclusive

would like to see this area to be continued to use for disc golf, which is something people can use more often than an amphitheater

We need more technical holes 150-300'. We have enough difficult courses for male players all around the state. It would be nice to have one local course that thought of other types of players. Ladies play courses like this just to hold on to par as much as possible, even the FPO (female pro) players. We are not able to gain strokes back and bounce back with birdies the way men are playing these layouts. The womens game is just to make as few mistakes as possible and get as many pars as possible. Please design layouts that women can birdie. It makes for better score separation. The only score separation in the womens divisions on layouts like this are from taking bogeys and up. Give us birdie opportunities

why have two very long pin positions when we could design for one longer/one shorter to be more inclusive of players of different skill levels? need more representation for female/junior/senior players in these layouts. please think of us

maintain practice baskets here

We need to formalize signage and tee boxes. We need more short and technical shots for female, junior, and senior players. More 300' or less distance holes would be more inclusive.

We need our disc golf courses to be more inclusive of different skill levels and players. Adult men design and build these courses. We see this in the people that turn out for leagues and tournaments. It's time to offer something to the women, juniors, and seniors of the community.

I am an avid female disc golf player and competitor in the community. The Badlands disc golf courses could be improved by installing new women's tee positions and/or basket positions. This would help make the community more inclusive. We don't need longer layouts, we need more technical holes and more options for ladies/juniors/senior players. All of the local courses have all designed by, and built for, adult male players. The local league and tournament turnouts reflect this. Having even just one option for a ladies layout in all of Colorado would be a huge improvement. Please consider thinking about the underrepresented players in the community and invest in them and you will see the number of ladies, juniors, and seniors in tournaments and around increase.

I am in full support of improving the disc coarse more grass

If there are programs to utilize the amphitheater throughout the year, I would 100% support adding it. I worry that it will be added and no one will use it because there are no plays, concerts, programs to encourage using it.

Could you add some bike racks here, to encourage people to bike to the park instead of driving?

Like in design 1, I would much prefer to see a community garden here instead of another parking lot. For most of the year the two existing parking lots aren't full. Additionally, fewer parking spaces can encourage walking/biking to the park instead of driving which is much better for everyone's health.

I like the cis-cross aspect with seats better than the first design. To me it seems to utilize the space more/better. I do not play disc golf but frequently visit this park because I live a block away. I really support adding more community amenities without getting rid of the golf course even if it is reduced in size a bit.

Skateboard park. The kids in this community need free things, not golf courses that cost money. There are plenty places for people of money to go. Help the kids in this community.

I love adding the community garden plots and I hope they can be incorporated into design 2 if that is what people prefer.

Pickleball courts, lots of pickleball courts with lights for night play and drinking fountains and shade.

Thank you.

This is a very large gap from 17 to 18. The existing walk was long enough as it was. Overall, I'd like to see two complete 18-hole courses, as we have now. Barring that, 27 holes makes more sense over 24 or 26 holes.

Design option 2 is better than 1. I agree with the other commentors that the designer of the disc golf course has not been on site. From the current given options it is clear the nature of the disc golf holes are only focused on directing the flight path away from the walk ways. There is little consideration for creating interesting hole shapes. The current lay outs have minimal tree involvement which decreases the quality of the holes.

There is sufficient space for two 18 hole courses w/o causing undo hazard over the walking paths. Some of the walking path can be moved wider from some of the treed areas to allow for disc golf holes. There is poor use of the area known as the blair witch course. There is only 1 hole in that area where there has been up to 9 in the past.

If the course has be be cut down in the number of holes. Attempt to put 9 on upper. 9 in the middle (blair witch), and 9 at lower. That will allow users to mix and match 9 hole courses for full 18 hole rounds.

Upgrades in parking and parking options look great. I highly doubt that amphitheater will get uses at all based on the usage of the other amphitheaters in the area. It would likely be a poor use of resources.

Overall, it is clear that the walking pedestrian is being prioritized over disc golfers. This park has been heavily used by disc golfers for a long time. Maybe the prioritization in the design should be adjusted to the primary user group. Improvements to the park are appreciated.

It’s heartening to see these courses getting some attention and improvements and that the redesigns (specifically option two) attempt to retain the character of each of the current courses. That said, I’m in agreement with others that many of the holes at the current iteration of Lower Badlands are some of the few wooded disc golf holes in the metro and that removing some of them to make this much longer course feels misguided.

Additionally, the length of this new course is going to make this much less accessible to many beginner players and those who are just less fit. These are already tough/intermediate courses and combining the two really closes the door on many who would be coming to this course early on in learning the sport. If folks want a long course day, they can play the two courses.

I've played with the original course designer a couple of times. One thing he always was clear on was the "badlands" concept. I'd really, really recommend respecting that moving forward, keeping it as 2 different 18 hole courses...for sure.

I agree that trees and shade are desperately needed for this park and I like the community direction you are taking. However, it truly feels that you have not consulted a Disc Golf course designer for either of these design options (or anyone who has played disc golf for fun). It is far too long and the distances are incredibly difficult for anyone who isn't a professional (no women or children could pretend this is approachable). The Upper Badlands course is already a hike and the proposal is to make it twice as long. I much prefer having two separate courses that are both playable, rather than one massive course that I do not want to visit.

I urge you to consult locals in the disc golf community to learn what makes a course fun, playable, and achievable for an average disc golfer.

As someone who plays disc golf at these wonderful course at least once a week I'd like to see better tee pads and signage, some more shade, benches and trash around the course and the lavatory by Tee #1 maintained more or the brick and morter restroom available year round. I like the idea of keeping with Ross' original badlands theme and making it seem like the wild west or beyond thunderdome. Such a pretty place. Thank you!

The amphitheater is incompatible with disc golf. Please focus on the "Badlands" theme with improvements in tee pads, signage and maps and don't mess with the course too much. It's already an excellent couple of courses.

This is a better layout but still not great. It is worse than what is presently in place. There's no need to reduce two independent 18-hole courses to one 24-hole course. It is superfluous in some ways while simultaneously underutilizes the landscape in other ways. Please do not move forward with these designs.

This looks like a design from someone that has not been to the property. As a tax payer, I'm concerned how much money was spent on this proposal, which leaves disc golfers with a worse amenity than what is already there. It would have been more appreciated if that money was simply spent on signage and improved tee pads. This proposal is a step backwards, not forwards. There is an unnecessary amount of walking/distance between holes. From 2 to 3 is glaringly apparent that this designer has not been to the property.

This seems like way to much walking. I think you can figure out a way to not take a step backwards and still leave us with two 18 hole courses.
Is there a plan to make up for the loss of baskets by making another course somewhere else? I believe the area already lost a course up at the NW corner of 104th and Sheridan (Westminster Course, I believe it was called). It says your goal is to improve disc golf but I'm not seeing it. Courses are packed enough as it is and now you're putting everyone on one.
I used to be the arms and legs of a Wounded Warrior so I understand someone not wanting to get hit with a disc. He would have been enjoyed watching people throw, but one or two of his friends might complain about the dangers, but they complained about everything. I've played and bonded with complete strangers probably half the time I've played. Isn't that what the community wants? I feel like the disc golf community who has put a lot of sweat, blood, and our own personal money into improving these courses over the last two years has gotten the tossed aside by people who have no connections to the past-time.
I like the amphitheater though.

As an avid disc golfer, I'm concerned about the changes occurring at the Lower Badlands course, which is widely considered the best course in the Denver metro area. Ideally, holes 9-17 of the current layout would stay intact, beyond those holes, other changes are fully welcome and supported. I prefer Design Option 2 because it keeps holes 10-11 of the current layout rather than turning them into pedestrian paths. (For reference, 11 is the hole in the southeast portion of the park that runs along the pond across from Water World). One thing that can be overlooked is that a presence of disc golfers brings safety and cleanliness to an area, especially the woods. The 10-11 holes of the park are quite private and tucked away; a steady flow of us good-natured golfers create a safe and welcoming environment for all. They are also signature holes (along with 14 and 16 in particular) and would be sorely missed by all. There are so few disc golf courses in the Denver Metro that incorporate woods/trees to the extent that Lower Badlands does, keeping that in mind would be appreciated by the disc golf community. Essentially, in my opinion, do what you want with the wide open, tree-less holes in grassy fields, but preserve as much of the wooded course as possible.